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========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 8 Mon Nov 25, 1991 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 01:14 EST Sub: ATARI's TOS 2.06 Discussion of ATARI's TOS 2.06 for the ATARI ST/STe machines. 204 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 1 Tue Oct 12, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:12 EDT To anyone who can answer: I've been using 2.06 for a while now, and have obviously found it a much improved TOS. (It's in my Turbo 030). Anyway, I get the message "system out of memory" fairly often, and would like to have some ideas to either extend it's memory capability or figure out where the problem is. I have done a lot of changing to my setup on 2.06 such as colors, icon assignments to certain programs or types of files, function-key assignments, program icons on the desktop etc. Maybe I just maxed it out, but I could really use some guidance on the limitations of 2.06 so I can adjust accordingly. Thanks, Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 2 Tue Oct 12, 1993 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 19:25 EDT Tom Jr., the "system out of memory" message is misleading and unnecessarily alarming. You probably have lots of memory, but the NEWDESK.INF file has crept above its size limit (4Kb). It's easy to do that, by installing too many applications and icons, especially in mono, where there's so much room for those nice small icons. You might try un-installing some of the less crucial things, then saving the desktop. If that doesn't work, use an ASCII text editor to remove some carefully selected lines from NEWDESK.INF directly. Be sure you have a backup of the file first though. If all that fails, delete or rename the file so the desktop can't find it; reboot, and install icons and applications from scratch. Yeah, the size limit is lower than it should be. But I think it was much lower, only 1Kb, on the first STs. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 3 Wed Oct 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:33 EDT Tom Jr., Mark said it well. You might order the 2.06 manual from the CodeHeads, also. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 4 Wed Oct 13, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 14:06 EDT Tom, further to what Mark said, one of the nice features of 2.06 is that you can have more than one NEWDESK.INF file. So you can, for example, have all your general WP tools set up as icons on the desktop and save that as NEWDESK1.INF, then remove them all and set up all your programing tools as icons and save that as NEWDESK2.INF, etc., etc. Switching between them is done from the options menu on the desktop, 'READ .INF FILE'. Doing that causes a warm boot, I believe, so be sure to save any work you're doing first. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 5 Wed Oct 13, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:59 EDT Doing a Read .INF File does not cause a warm boot. It just reads in the .INF file and redraws the Desktop. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 6 Wed Oct 13, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 20:11 EDT Thanks to Mark Al, and Charlie. At least you confirmed what I figured. The 4K limit is too low, but a definite improvement over 1K. A 2.06 manual from the CodeHeads? Hmmm... I've been meaning to get to them about being able to use some of their stuff with enhanced resolutions in Crazy Dots, so now I have more of an excuse. Of course, other than a multitasking OS, I'd really rather use HotWire, but haven't since I bought Crazy Dots. Thanks again, I'll be checking out your suggestions. Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 7 Thu Oct 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Like Wayne sez, no warm boot, Charlie. BTW, one of the ommissions of TOS 2.06/3.06 is a method of switching INF files with a keystroke, as can be done in NeoDesk. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 8 Thu Oct 14, 1993 JIM.K [Jim~ST Sysop] at 12:40 EDT Al, I just took a look at the desktop, and you can assign a keystroke combination to load a new INF file. You just drop down the Options menu, click on Desktop config, and select Define Single Keystroke. Jim Kudron <ST Sysop> 14Oct93 12:30:54 ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 9 Thu Oct 14, 1993 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 19:15 EDT [JIM] > ... you can assign a keystroke combination >to load a new INF file. You just drop down the Options menu, click on > Desktop config, and select Define Single Keystroke. Yes, but the file selector which then comes up constitutes another step. You can't assign single keys to _particular_ inf files, to call them up immediately. I don't use NeoDesk, but I think this capability is what Al might be referring to. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 10 Thu Oct 14, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:27 EDT Users of _any_ TOS can load DESKTOP/NEWDESK.INF files by simply double- clicking on them. Those with NewDeskTops can keep their INF files right on the screen as well. All you have to do is install DeskSwitch as an application for INF files. This powerful utility has been around for years. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 11 Fri Oct 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:34 EDT Jim, I don't usually see my TOS desktop, but I'll take a look to see if 3.06 will indeed let me install a new desktop by pressing a single key. Not by doing some other stuff AND pressing a key (which is the way I recall that it works), but by just pressing a key while at the desktop. John E., Does DeskSwitch work with the TT and newdesk.inf files? If so, I owe you an apology, since I had assumed that it didn't work. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 12 Fri Oct 15, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:17 EDT Al, Yes, Desk Switch works on the TT and the Falcon, too. I should qualify that to say it appears to work with a quick test of a few different INF files. I don't use it regularly so I can't rule out the kind of convoluted problems some people seem to report with some software. It should work under all TOSes because is uses a system AES call to accomplish its task. John P.S. Folks, if you use Desk Switch, don't forget that it's shareware (not mine). ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 13 Fri Oct 15, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:20 EDT John, I never knew that. I'll check it out. Thanks, Tom BTW, I've been meaning to ask you about some CodeHead stuff, and compatibility with Crazy Dots. I'll ask over in your area when I think about it. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 14 Fri Oct 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:52 EDT Thanks, John. I'll try it out the next time I see the desktop. :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 15 Sun Oct 17, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 12:51 EDT I didn't find Desk Switch here on Genie. Is it in our Library? Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 16 Sun Oct 17, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:11 EDT Ron, Perhaps you didn't look far enough back in the libraries. Desk Switch is over 3 years old. It probably has the name DESKSWIT.ARC (or LZH). It's also on CodeHead's Demo Disk, if you happen to own our Utilities package. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 18 Sun Oct 17, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 21:03 EDT Ron, Desk Switch is file 15419, DESKSW11.ARC, version 1.1 upped by CFJ. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 19 Wed Oct 20, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:34 EDT John, shouldn't it be possible to reconfigure the size limit for NEWDESK.INF by poking a new size to memory during boot? Billy B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 20 Wed Oct 20, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:16 EDT Billy, You could only do that if the NEWDESK.INF size limit is stored in RAM. It may be located only in ROM. Even if it's located somewhere in RAM, it's not documented and messing with it would be an illegal programming practice. There don't seem to be any developers left around here that still do that sort of thing. <grin> John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 21 Fri Oct 29, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 23:34 EDT I have looked at the Mega STe manual over and over and still can't seem to use the desktop configuration dialog box. Specifically I can't acces the function keys setting to put my own commands in. Specifically, how would I assign something a function key? Thanks, Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 22 Sat Oct 30, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 02:35 EDT Ron, This is kind of misleading. Actually, the Desktop Configuration dialog only REPORTS what your function key settings are! To set a function key to an application, single click (highlight) the application. Then click on Install Application in the Options menu. One of the options there is to assign that app to a function key. Once that is done, it will show in the Desktop Configuration dialog box. This is on page 4-21 of the MSTe manual. Don't forget to save your desktop if you want to have those function keys next time you turn your MSTe back on. <g> BTW, I wonder what kind of a MSTe Atari was running when they took the screen shot on page 4-26. It shows 7,515,894 bytes of free memory! Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 11:08 PM Mountain Time Friday, October 29, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 23 Sat Oct 30, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 04:37 EDT Mike, It was probably a TT... ~Chris ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 24 Sat Oct 30, 1993 C.CASSADAY [Chris C.] at 19:52 EDT Ron, You need to select an application by its .PRG, .APP, .TOS, .TTP, or .GTP extension and then select "Install Application". You can assign up to 20 function keys. F1-F10, Shift F1-Shift F10. Chris ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 25 Sun Oct 31, 1993 D.CRANO [Big D] at 19:18 EST John-CodeHead, After reading back through some of the archives of this topic I saw you talking about your SETSEEK program... I thought may be this might be the problem I am having with my MSTe and the floppies (posted over in the MegaST topic) so I d/led it tonight and tried it out... It did not make any differnce as far as my problem goes, but it did set the seek rate just as it is supposed to.. But there is one thing that does happen that I did not see in the doc file.... I set the seek for drive A (a 1.44) for 6ms and drive B (a SF 314) to 3ms.. All looks good and I do a get to make sure all is set.. But if I access a disk in drive A then do a get it is set to 12ms.. I do the same with B and it will stay at 3ms.. I did verify that TOS 2.06 does set the seek to 6ms.. But as soon as I access A then drive A does to 12ms and drive B will stay at 6ms... By the way I did the same with the NEOcontrol panel and set the seek the same as with SETSEEK and got the same results.. Drive A has a mind of it's own ;^)... This is not any kind of problrm at all, in fact all I wanted to do was set drive B to 3ms and SETSEEK does just that.. Just thought I would let you know that the 1.44 drive A will set it's self as soon as it is accessed.... Thanks for the suport, Don ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 26 Mon Nov 01, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:48 EST Don, If you have a 1.44 meg drive, the seek rate will be automatically set based on the size of the floppy that you use. You can disregard the results returned from SetSeek. SetSeek is used to set the seek rate of 720K drives when using TOS 2.06 on older STs. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 27 Mon Nov 01, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:19 EST Is FOLDERXXX.PRG still neccessary with TOS 2.06? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 28 Mon Nov 01, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:22 EST See Flat, FOLDERxxx.PRG is only necessary with TOS 2.06 if you're not using the extra folders option in ICD software and you have a hard drive and you want to make sure you don't exceed the small folder count built into the ROMs. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 29 Mon Nov 01, 1993 D.CRANO [Big D] at 21:57 EST CodeHead John, Thanks I figured something like such was going on... It does work fine on the external 720k, and sure makes the drive a little nicer to work with.......... Thanks again Don ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 30 Mon Nov 22, 1993 J.ZEGER [J.ZEGER] at 22:20 EST Is 2.06 the latest upgrade for an atari STE? I am currently using Tos 1.6, which came with my machine. I have been reading about other version in some magazines saying that tos 5.0 is on the way. Could you give me an overview of what different versions are available, and what the benefits would be for having that operating system? What is the current cost for any TOS upgrades, and where can you purchase it? Thanks for your help jzeger ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 31 Tue Nov 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:18 EST J. Zeger, Yes, 2.06 is the latest version of TOS for single-tasking systems. Codehead Technologies sells what is called the TEC board, which contains TOS 2.06 and an excellent manual. I'd also upgrade to Geneva, the multitasker from Gribnif, at the same time. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 32 Tue Nov 23, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:34 EST CodeHead also sells the ROMs, manual and utility disk without the TEC for STE owners. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 33 Tue Nov 23, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:03 EST J.ZEGER, Currently, 2.06 is the latest that you can use in the STE. I imagine the 5.0 will be for a different machine. 4.0 on the Falcon will not run on the TT or any other Atari machine except for the Falcon. The 2.06 upgrade is about $60.00. Ask the CodeHeads as they sell just the chips also (or did). ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 34 Tue Nov 23, 1993 D.MCNAMEE [Dan @ Atari] at 18:11 EST jzeger, Yes, TOS 2.06 is the latest available. I'm not sure what current pricing on it is, but you can get it through the Codeheads or an authorized Atari service center. Dan ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 36 Wed Nov 24, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 00:47 EST I have just purchased the TEC manual from Codehead. I can't find any reference to the 2.06 Cache option. Could anyone elaborate on the good and bad side of using or not using the cache. John B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 38 Wed Nov 24, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:22 EST See Flat, If the cache option shows up on your machine, you must have a 68030 (TT, Falcon, or add-on). You should leave it enabled unless you encounter problems. There are very few instances where the cache needs to be turned off. I believe Notator might be one of those instances. We didn't document the cache option in the TEC manual because it isn't available on machines with TECs. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 39 Thu Nov 25, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:50 EST Actually, John, the 68000 in the MegaSTE has a cache. Also, since Notator only runs on 68000 machines, that's the cache to turn off. It won't help on a TT or Falcon. :) ~Chris ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 40 Thu Nov 25, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:11 EST Chris, Er, ah, yeah that's right. I just wanted to make another mistake to make Al feel better. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 42 Thu Nov 25, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:13 EST John E. Thanks, but I'm still puzzled at what the cache does. It's a buffer of some sort itsn't it? I'll leave it on if you say so. P.S. I have a Turbo 030. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 43 Fri Nov 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:43 EST I feel better! :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 44 Sun Nov 28, 1993 B.CONNOLLY1 [Bud] at 15:43 EST I just got a Mega STe with TOS 2.06 and HD floppy. I read in one of my manuals that the seek rate should be set to 6 ms for a HD floppy. It seemed to work ok before I set that speed via NeoDesk. So, is it really necessary to set it to 6 ms? What are the benefits/hazards of doing it or not. Bud ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 45 Fri Dec 03, 1993 G.FUQUAY [GGF] at 20:33 EST Bud, You mean you got a manual with yours?!! I bought one about a year ago, (used) and when I got home, the manual was for the Mega ST. I called the dealer where I bought it and he said that was the manual that was in the package when he got it. He said he would try to get one for me, but it has never materialized yet. I have been trying to find one hi and lo, but no luck. Do you know where I might find one? Thanks, Gary ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 46 Sun Dec 05, 1993 B.CONNOLLY1 [Bud] at 11:53 EST Gary, The Mega STe manual is part #: C302016-001 REV. B. I would think that you could get one from Atari. Try Dan McNamee (hope I spelled that right, could be MacNamee) You could also try his 'Wacky Stuff in the Atari Warehouse' Cat 14 topic 37 in this RT. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 47 Mon Dec 06, 1993 D.MCNAMEE [Dan @ Atari] at 20:44 EST Bud, You got it right. ;-) Gary, Sorry, I missed part of the thread here. Did you post that you didn't get a manual with your Mega STe? If so, you can contact Customer Relations about getting a replacement manual. If you just bought TOS 2.06 to install in a different machine, no manual comes with that, but you could purchase the Mega STe manual, or buy one of the manuals from the Codeheads that they sell. Dan ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 48 Tue Dec 14, 1993 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 00:12 EST How come when I "Print to Screen" from the desktop all I get is a bunch of numbers? When is this function useful? Thanks - Tommy ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 49 Tue Dec 14, 1993 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 06:54 EST Tommy, Do you mean 'Print Screen' in the menu below 'Save Desktop'? This 'dumps' the screen image to your printer, but only works if you have an Epson compatible mode on your printer. Alt-Help does the same thing from inside any GEM program. There are patch programs in the library that let you dump to some other printers. You put one of these in your AUTO folder. I have one for my DeskJet. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 50 Wed Dec 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EST Tommy, The desktop Print Screen function prints the contents of the screen to a printer; it works fine using a dot-matrix printer (I just tried it on another Atari). What system are you running, and what printer do you have? Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 51 Wed Dec 15, 1993 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 10:25 EST Fred P. - Thanks. Yes, I did mean "Print Screen" below "Save Desktop". I'll try setting the printer to Epson mode. I had it in HP mode and was just getting a bunch of numbers. Al - Just saw your post after replying to Fred's. I'm using a Mega STe w\2.06 and an Epson Action Laser 2. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 52 Wed Dec 15, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 16:55 EST There's an HP driver TSR in the library. HPRSAVE or something like that. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 53 Wed Dec 15, 1993 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 18:05 EST I put the printer in Epson LQ mode to "Print Desktop" but all I get is a gray blur. Anyone know why? Thanks. - Tommy ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 54 Wed Dec 15, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 19:51 EST Tommy, I'm afraid the native printer driver in ALL ST/TT systems is the original Epson FX/RX system. That's a 9-Pin printer and your 24-Pin LQ isn't set up to accept that type of signal in graphics mode. If your LQ has an FX compatible mode then you might try that, otherwise there used to be a printer driver mod in GEnie's library that when run in the Auto folder would install an LQ driver and disable the FX driver. Good luck; Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 55 Wed Dec 15, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 21:43 EST Tommy, Give up on Epson mode. Take Ken Estes' advice and download HP_RSAVE by Chet Walters for a great screendump in HP mode. Imagecopy 2 will also do a nice job. <g> ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 56 Wed Dec 15, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 21:51 EST "Print TO Screen"? How about "Print Screen". It should work as advertised, at least it does on my MSTe. Printing the screen is not very useful, IMO, but I like 2.06's ability to print the contents of the top window. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 57 Wed Dec 15, 1993 DAEDWARDS [Warrl] at 23:06 EST T.Dunbar2: >I had it in HP mode and was just getting a bunch of numbers. Sending Epson graphics to an HP printer? You probably got 32K of numbers at 2-10 digits per page... ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 58 Thu Dec 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:42 EST Tommy, The real solution is Imagecopy 2 from the CodeHeads, which captures anything (full screen on down) and let's you print it out intelligently or save it as a graphic image in any number of formats. It's $40, and one of the best utilities around. It also lets you view all sorts of image files, from many platforms. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 59 Thu Dec 16, 1993 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 12:01 EST Thanks Greg and Tomas and Al and Warll - I'll try the FX mode for "Print Desktop" till I get a chance to download HP_RSAVE. P.S. Interesting about Image Copy 2. Is there a descriptive file on that here on GEnie? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 60 Thu Dec 16, 1993 ST-INFORMER at 20:38 EST I agree on Imagecopy 2, it is neat. You can congifure to save, choose the save format, even included PC? compressed Degas format. Quite a neat program. Works as an ACC and is ready anytime. Can configure to print file or screen at your command. No Atari Laser support yet, but most others fully supported. Rod MacDonald @ ST-INFORMER ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 61 Fri Dec 17, 1993 S.NOAH [Stu] at 00:39 EST TOS has come so... far from ver .9x why can't the print screen routine utilize a GDOS printer driver if it is present ??? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 62 Fri Dec 17, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 21:47 EST >P.S. Interesting about Image Copy 2. Is there a descriptive file on >that here on GEnie? > Tommy, See CAT 32 TOP 36 (CodeHeads Area) there is all kind of info about ImageCopy 2. You'll get all kinds of helpful info there. === Joe Rogo === Friday, December 17, 1993 9:24 pm ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 63 Sat Dec 18, 1993 DAEDWARDS [Warrl] at 00:15 EST Uh... sysop type folks... The topic title here says "new", and the subject under discussion is over 2 years old... Maybe time for a quick edit? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 64 Sat Dec 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:49 EST Imagecopy 2 has its own topic, and a recent msg posted there describes its features. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 65 Sat Dec 18, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 15:31 EST Warrl, Done! BTW, there are a lot of topics done the same way and I only change them when others point them out. I only briefly read the heading. ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 18 December 1993 at 12:12 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 66 Wed Jan 12, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 17:27 EST I haven't checked the archives but I was wondering if there a listing anywhere of software that does not work on TOS 2.06? I know that the Spectrum Holobyte Flight simms don't, and someone in another Cat/Top mentioned something about Cyberpaint as well. I'd be very interested in any more information about this. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 67 Thu Jan 20, 1994 B.KEYS [BK] at 01:05 EST Hello All! I have a 1040 STe w/4mb, TOS 1.06. What is the latest version as of Jan.20,1994? I'd like to upgrade so I can use a 1.44m HD floppy. I've also heard an "AJAX" chip may be req'd. Any comments would be appreciated. In advance...Thanx! Barry Keys. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 68 Thu Jan 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:08 EST Barry, See my reply to teh same msg you posted in another topic. (No need to cross- post around here; many of us read everything.) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 69 Sat Jan 22, 1994 B.KEYS [BK] at 09:22 EST Thanks Al! Sorry for the cross-post. Thanks for making me aware. I'm learning, along with a lot of trial and error. I like GEnie, and am using Aladdin. Take care. Barry Keys ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 70 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:45 EST Barry, No need to apologize. I did the same thing when I started out. Glad to have you on board, and glad to see you are using Aladdin. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 71 Sat Feb 19, 1994 J.LEBLANC3 [TECHWREHSE] at 22:17 EST Hi Guys, I haven't been around in quite awhile. I was wondering if someone could help me dig up some information about ugrading a 1040STE to TOS 2.06. I have the chips, but of course, Atari didn't provide any documentation to assist you in installing the upgrade. I need jumper settings, and anything else that you think maybe useful. Thanks again for the help! ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 72 Sun Feb 20, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 22:20 EST Simple! Remove the 1.62 ROMs and install the 2.06 chips, making _very_ sure you have the notches facing the same way as the old ones. Otherwise you'll fry them. (look on the PC board for the outline of the socket if u forget. You'll see one end has a notch in it. That's your clue.) There are three jumpers that need to be rewired (spelled resoldered) and that's it. Codehead sells their TEC package with chips for $60. Includes instructions and a disk of stuff. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 73 Mon Feb 21, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:38 EST Tech, The CodeHeads have a 2.06 manual, and Tomas of CodeHead fame is an expert at these conversions. Check your Aladdin topic list or the GEnie list for the CodeHead area, and you'll find a TOS 2.06 subtopic. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 74 Tue Feb 22, 1994 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 08:02 EST If Atari were on the ball, they would install standard jumpers in future machines that could be unplugged and moved ala the hard drives and the PC controller boards. 5:45:06 am - Monday, February 21, 1994 Billy B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 75 Wed Feb 23, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 23:34 EST >If Atari were on the ball, they would install standard jumpers in future >machines that could be unplugged and moved a la the hard drives and the PC >controller boards. Now what an idea. This would truly be nice; there are some slide-on jumpers in my ham radio TNC that make readjustment a snap. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 76 Thu Feb 24, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 12:59 EST I've just had TOS 2.06 installed and I'm currently switching over from TOS 1.04 and NEOdesk. I have a few questions........ Is there a way in TOS 2.06 to assign a specific icon to a file extension. For example, I want all .ARC files to look the same etc. I can make it happen for each individual file but can't seem to do it globally. I used to be able to do this under NEOdesk. Also, is there an explanation somewhere, on how the icons are assigned in the DESKICON.RSC file. I know that the second icon is applied to all folders, the third to the trash can etc. I would imagine that the first 12 slots or so are global designations then after that it's a one on one basis. Could someone please explain what the DESKICON.DFN file does? As I understand it, (please correct me if I'm wrong), the DESKTOP.RSC file contains all the icons and the NEWDESK.INF file contains the information, (among other things), of which icons are used for which things in specific resolutions etc. I've noticed that when you "save desktop" you get both NEWDESK.INF and DESKTOP.INF. I use a bootmanager (SUPERBOOT), so I save the desktop, the xfer the DESKICON.RSC file into the Superboot folder, rename it, and use it for manipulation. I notice that is HAS to be removed from the root directory of the boot disk or it will be used regardless of what Superboot is trying to do. I also notice that even if I remove the DESKTOP.INF file from the root directory, it always reappears everytime I re-boot, as if it's getting re-written each time. Is that in fact the case? As I mentioned before, I'm not clear on what the DESKTOP.INF file is for in TOS 2.06? What are the options for editing the DESKTOP.RSC icon file, regarding re- arranging and/or adding new icons. I'm currently using the ICONJUGGLER by Jon Eidsvoog but was wondering if there is anything else out there that can swap the order of the icons? Thanks in advance for the help...... ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 77 Thu Feb 24, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:34 EST Mr. Don, You need Icon Juggler, which will handle icon reassignments, and the SDS Icon CPX, which handles icon editing and assignments. You'll be able to assign icons to filename extensions just fine. I also suggest you ask the CodeHeads if they still have their excellent TOS 2.06 manual. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 78 Fri Feb 25, 1994 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 07:25 EST Don, To assign an icon to an extension, say all ACCs, enter *.ACC when prompted for the name in the "Install Icon" dialog box. Al is right - the best way to handle icons is with an editor. DESKICON.RSC contains the icons. NEWDESK.INF contains the icon assignments, as well as other desktop info such as hot key assignments and window/icon arrangement. You only get NEWDESK.INF when you save the desktop. You are being confused by SUPERBOOT. Superboot copies the active desktop file from its library to your boot directory and renames it to DESKTOP.INF every time it operates. This works because TOS 2 looks for DESKTOP.INF if there is no NEWDESK.INF for backward compatibility. In order for SUPERBOOT to work properly for you, EVERY TIME YOU CHANGE THE DESKTOP, before you turn off the computer, you must save out a NEWDESK.INF file, then rename it to whatever name you want Superboot to find it as, and then MOVE it to the AUTO/SUPERBOOT/ subfolder. This is the only real inconvenience of using SUPERBOOT. I use it myself with TOS 2. But why did you stop using NEOdesk? It does everything the TOS 2 desktop does, and some more. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 79 Fri Feb 25, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 13:04 EST Al... Thanks for the info. Is the SDS ICON CPX a commercial product ?? I already have the Icon Juggler and the Codehead TOS 2.06 manual. (I bought a used 1040 with the TEC board installed so all the doc's rtc came with.) Regarding the manual, I did have a look at it but I guess I missed the things I was asking about. I assume the Icon CPX lets you do the same kinds of things to the DESKICON.RSC file as NEOdesk's Icon Editor lets you do to a .NIC file? About SDS...I couldn't locate a phone number for them to call and check about the Icon editor...would you know it?? ....thanks. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 80 Sat Feb 26, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:39 EST Mr. Don, Scott Sanders of SDS is right here on GEnie (S.SANDERS? not sure at the moment) and can tell you what the status of the icon CPX is. There's a topic area for The Compendium, his book, so if you toured over there you'd find him and others who can reach him right away. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 81 Sat Feb 26, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 13:57 EST Al.... OK thanks....I'll buzz over and check it out. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 82 Sun Feb 27, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 03:31 EST Try S.SANDERS2. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 83 Sun Feb 27, 1994 D.HOHENSTEIN [PRIMETIME] at 23:44 EST Should I bother upgrading my TOS 2.05 to 2.06? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 84 Mon Feb 28, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 08:04 EST "D"........ Thanks.....already done. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 85 Tue Mar 01, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 00:35 EST Primetime, It depends on what you are going to be doing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :-) ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 86 Tue Mar 01, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 16:53 EST Are there any patch programs, (such as POOLFIX etc.), that are recommended to be used in the Auto folder with TOS2.06 ?? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 87 Tue Mar 01, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 21:41 EST 2.06 is required for high-density floppies. There are various bugs that exist in .05 that were fixed in .06. Otherwise, I dunno. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 88 Tue Mar 01, 1994 D.HOHENSTEIN [PRIMETIME] at 23:16 EST I've never had any problems using high density floppies with 2.05. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 89 Wed Mar 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:53 EST Mr. Don, All TOS versions can use the folder fix, either through the Atari utility or the ICD booter's settings. Serial fixes are also required if you use a high-speed modem. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 90 Wed Mar 02, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 11:38 EST Al, What do you recommend for the folder settings in ICD. (that's what I'm using). And, what happens if you exceed the folder limit, does the system just crash or can it nuke your hard drive??? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 91 Wed Mar 02, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 16:44 EST Mr. Don, the folder bug only hit hard drives in TOS 1.0, I believe. In later TOS versions it sometimes locked up the system and required a cold boot meaning you lost anything you were working on. In the latest TOS versions not only has the folder 'limit' been increased but TOS should handle things more neatly, allowing you to save and warm boot. I haven't use the Folder program in almost two years, since John Townsend mentioned the above fixes. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 92 Wed Mar 02, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:54 EST Mr Don, I have come accross the exceeded folder limit for the first time this year. It has happened a few times, I had my folderXXX program set at 100, it is now set at 200. I believe I also have ICD boot set at 100 for a total of 300. :-) I didnt' lose any data when I got the message but I had to reboot my system. John B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 93 Thu Mar 03, 1994 CBARRON at 01:58 EST Charlie The folder bug still exists in 3.06. Not as easy to get, but it is still there. I am positive, have recieved notice of it. Beware it still exists... ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 94 Thu Mar 03, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 03:05 EST It's NOT a bug. <sigh> It's a limitation that can be removed by one of the software system enhancements. It was a bug in TOS 1.0. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 95 Thu Mar 03, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:32 EST Mr. Don, The extra-colder setting depends on how many folders you usually access in a single session. Most users probably would find the 40-folder figure (which TOS has built-in) more than adequate, but some, like me, find the limit needs to be set at 500 or so. Memory is also a factor ... no, the COMPUTER'S memory, not yours and mine! :) If you have enough RAM, upping the folder count is very cheap insurance. I'd say that you should have 2 extra folders for every megabyte of HD space. Versions of TOS prior to 1.04 crashed the system when the folder pool was exhausted. Versions from 1.04 on up use a dynamic allocation, and you get a gentle message (usually) when the pool is used up. But some HD utilities will misbehave even with later versions of TOS when this happens, so it's wise to bump up the folder count. Keep in mind that setting ICD's count to, say, 50, means you have a total of 40+50. Charlie, You do so at your own peril. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 96 Thu Mar 03, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 13:51 EST No, Al, I don't for the reasons you just stated. The Bug part of the folder limit was only present in antique versions of TOS in that reaching the limit could scramble your FAT (I think it was the FAT). In TOS 2.05 that I use the FAT isn't harmed and a simple warning message is displayed. No problem. (BTW, I've never hit the folder limit on either my STfm or my MSTE in all these years.) Kenne, I know, I know.... Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 97 Thu Mar 03, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 15:14 EST I'm a bit confused about the folder limit thing. Is this only if you OPEN more than 40 (or whatever's alotted) folders? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 98 Thu Mar 03, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:57 EST Both sides are more right than wrong in their descriptions of the folder problem. If you view the operating system as something that should behave properly no matter how many files and folders are being accessed, it is clearly a bug. If you view the OS as something akin to MS-DOS -- and TOS clearly is related to DOS -- then the folder problem is little more than a reminder that setting up your computer requires prior knowledge of what kind of disk access it is likely to make. BTW, it must be the weather up here in the Snow Capital of the U.S. that made my type "the extra-colder setting" in a previous message. Make that "folder." (On the other hand, I think I might have been more accurate the first time!) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 99 Thu Mar 03, 1994 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 20:09 EST > ... it must be the weather up here in the Snow Capital of the > U.S. that made my type "the extra colder setting" ... Gosh Al, now you're really confusing me. Exactly what type are you again? <g> ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 100 Thu Mar 03, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:25 EST Charlie, I guess the folder problem is like cappucino. If you have never experienced it, you may never know what it's like. :) I know what you mean about the way later versions handle it, and it's a lot better than it was with TOS 1.00. Tommy, The folder limit is actually a limit on the way TOS handles the items in the root directory and folders at any level. In TOS versions prior to 1.04, every folder accessed, and every item accessed in the root directory, took up a folder slot in memory, and that slot remained used even when the folder or file was closed. So in a long session you could easily run out of folder and file slots, and when that happened, TOS barfed. Later versions free the handles in memory, so the probability of using them up is greatly diminished. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 101 Fri Mar 04, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Mark, Good to see you back! I hereby apologize to all my fellow GEniuses for inflicting my typos on the crowd here. I need to turn my Spelling Sentry back on. I have been suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome for six or seven years, and it's been growing worse. It's frustrating to type and retype and REretype and still not get the cooperation I used to expect from my fingers. It's not a good disability for someone in my profession, that's for sure. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 102 Fri Mar 04, 1994 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 08:04 EST Al, Carpal tunnel syndrome? Yikes! I've read about it--hope I can avoid it in the future. It's only because you're normally so intelligible that I needled you that little bit. I'm sure nobody expects exhaustive proofreading of these messages. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 103 Fri Mar 04, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 15:41 EST Al - What a drag carpal tunnel syndrome is. A very good friend of mine has suffered with it for years, and recently had surgery which seems to be fairly successful. She is in college learning computer programming, so her plight is similar to yours. There was an interesting article on CTS in the Sept. issue of Electronic Musician magazine. If you are interested I'd be happy to send it to you. I play guitar for a living so this kind of thing scares the bejeebies out of me. I had a little tendonitis a few years back and even that was fairly horrifying. Uh , yeah, TOS 2.06.... Love it! :-> ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 104 Fri Mar 04, 1994 TOWNS [John] at 16:14 EST I disagree. The Folder Limit is just that. It's a limit, not a bug. The number of folders can be increased by simply by running a program. It doesn't FIX anything, all it does is increase the number of OS Pool Entries. In fact, AHDI the Atari Hard Disk Driver has the ability to set the number of pool entries in the driver (in versions about 3.0). You could configure the number in the driver and you wouldn't have to run FOLDER.PRG any longer. Keep in mind that that is a feature of the driver. Whether or not Atari ever released a program to modify those numbers in the driver is unknown to me. Ask Bob Brodie or Bill Rehbock. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 105 Fri Mar 04, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:28 EST Mark, I developed carpal tunnel problems quite a while back, was completely disabled in terms of hand movement (both hands, unfortunately) for about six months, and got the use of my hands back after therapy. I learned to type differently, using my fingers more and my wrists less (my wrists not at all, usually). It's an occupational hazard for those who type for 15 to 20 hours a day. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 106 Fri Mar 04, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:36 EST John Towns, When a limit crashes your system, it's a bug isnt' it? ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 107 Sat Mar 05, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:05 EST Tommy, I like TOS 2.06, too, seen through the eyes of 3.06 (TT), which is identical functionally. We have that mag in our office library. I'll look it up. Towns, You see? You *should* write down these tidbits (or keep sending them here!). I don't think anyone ever reported that AHDI 3.x sets the OS pool higher. Thanks. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 108 Sat Mar 05, 1994 JIM.K [Jim~ST Sysop] at 10:53 EST See Flat, But it does not crash your system (After TOS 1.4). That's the whole point. You receive a message to expand the folder OS pool. Your system doesn't crash. Jim Kudron <ST Sysop> 5Mar94 10:22:56 ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 109 Sat Mar 05, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 15:02 EST Jim, I would dare to assume that the majority of Atari users still have TOS 1.00 and Tos 1.04, so, for them it is a bug. For everyone else it is what John said, a limit, which is very easily to change. John B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 110 Sat Mar 05, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 22:10 EST It's NOT a bug in 1.4. And to totally LACK compassion, ANYBODY that doesn't upgrade away from TOS 1.0-2 pretty much deserves any problems they have. So (*&^&^& cheap... sheesh! If they consider their work important they should consider TOS 1.04 _worth_ the upgrade. End rant. But, to be honest, I realize that many people probably haven't even heard about TOS upgrades and the rest don't care. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 111 Sun Mar 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:10 EST Jim (and Towns), You get a message with TOS 1.04 and up. And what does the message say? :) What's the difference between a crash and a controlled shutdown? <g> Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 112 Sun Mar 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:07 EST Flat, 1.04 has the fix, so owners with 1.04 won't be at a loss the way 1.00 owners are. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 113 Sun Mar 06, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 12:22 EST Kenne, most people with TOS 1.00 dont' have hard drives. They will never see the error message. John B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 114 Sun Mar 06, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:37 EST I'm not sure it's true about not seeing the error message. If fact, I don't think TOS 1.00 has the error message. One day the FATs are just scrambled on your floppy and you show 1,783,383,586 or something as the size of the disk. It's NOT a limit on TOS 1.0 it's a bug. I vaguely remember people saying the bug showed because they NEVER turned their computer off and they used a lot of floppies and a lot of folders. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 115 Sun Mar 06, 1994 TIMPURVES at 16:47 EST Towns, the only way it's not a bug is if Atari intended on scrambling the disk when the "limit" is reached. As far as newer TOS's that just display a message and lock up, sure this is better than scrambling the disk, but what about the document I just spent an hour creating, that I cannot save? -tim ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 116 Sun Mar 06, 1994 J.HOOPER9 [Foote] at 16:48 EST I have a MegaST 4 with a new TEC and 2.06 (a birthday present) and I have a question. I gave up on a SST board last year because I had so many headaches with programs not running and directories getting scrambled. I'm getting some of this with the 2.06. Several programs (even Degas Elite) have required re- installing before the system would recognize them as programs. A few saves have given me the dreaded "gray greek" file names that can't be erased or moved. ANy ideas as to what is happening?? Thanks. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 117 Sun Mar 06, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 19:38 EST Al, A crash will put your data at risk. A controlled shutdown won't. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 4:54 AM Mountain Time Sunday, March 6, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 118 Sun Mar 06, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 20:01 EST Foote.... I'm not an expert here but....I too have a MegaST4 with a slightly different configuration than you. I have a Fast Technology T25 and TOS206 piggybacked with a switch that lets me use TOS 1.04 or TOS 2.06. I had this done for just the reasons you're experiencing. Some things just won't run on 2.06. Now I thought I had read a discussion somewhere here on GEnie that the TEC board could be wired in such a way as to allow the use, (with a switch), of both TOSes'. If all else fails, you may want to yak at the Codeheads about this possibility, I know for me, it solved all my problems. ....MR. DON ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 119 Mon Mar 07, 1994 TOWNS [John] at 13:45 EST I agree with the fact that the way the error is handled is a defect. I dispute the fact that the limit is defect. All systems have limits. Some just handle them more gracefully than others ;-) I agree.. no limit or feature for that matter should ever crash your system or cause data loss. If it does, then the error handling is defective and should be redone. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 120 Tue Mar 08, 1994 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 05:55 EST I have a Mega4 rev 4.0 motherboard with a 2chip tos 1.02. Is there any _easy_ way to install TOS 2.06? .... considering I have a 2chip TOS already could I 'wire-up' somehow? Anyone done it? .....Jon ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 121 Tue Mar 08, 1994 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp] at 14:24 EST The message says "System Halted! Out of Memory! Use Folder100.PRG to get more". And the system locks up. I've seen it, but never during the course of something like creating a document. When I've seen it is when the system has been running a series of batch files (like on our BBS) where FoReM shells to a mailer, which in turn has to call an archiver (like ST Zip, LZH, or ARC), which goes back to the mail processor, which calls the archiver _again_, and finally goes back to the front-end program for the BBS. Jon, If you have a Mega ST 4, you must get a board, like the CodeHead TEC Board to run TOS 2.06. The roms are a different size that the original ones that you had in your Mega. Foote, Sounds like disk errors to me. regards, Bob Brodie ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 122 Tue Mar 08, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:01 EST Bob, Yep, that's what the message says. I got it last night during a long session of file copying, zipping, unzipping and text-reading. I had 500 extra folders set, too. Yowie. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 123 Wed Mar 09, 1994 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 00:55 EST Jolly Jon, The easiest way to install TOS 2.06 in your Mega is to buy the TEC board from Codehead. I bought one a while back and installation took almost three minutes(after I had the Mega apart). Their phone number is 213-386-5735. There is another option for this upgrade and that is the TAB board. It is(was) available from Wes Newell. His address is: Newell Industries P.O. Box 253 Wylie, Texas 75098 214-442-6612 I don't know much about this option, I got a product list from his BBS. I have heard that the TAB board requires quite a bit of soldering. Hope this helps. Paul ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 124 Sat Mar 12, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey] at 22:50 EST I have 2.06 on one of Wes Newell's TAB set-ups in my 4 MB 520STfmd. I had a tech install it to be switchable with 1.04. I even have a clock chip in underneath the whole thing. I don't know how much soldering was needed or if any would have been needed had I not wanted the switch. I do know that the tech said that the instructions for the switchable installation contained an error that would prevent it from working. No matter which upgrade you go for, I would recommend the book from the Codeheads as a good buy, almost essential in fact. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 125 Fri Mar 18, 1994 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:16 EST The second easiest way to install TOS 2.06 in a MegaST is to install a Turbo25 accelerator board and a pair of TOS 2.06 roms. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 126 Tue Mar 22, 1994 M.LEE34 at 19:32 EST I have just bought a MegaSTE with TOS 2.05. I have a set of TOS 2.06 chips. One chip is labelled "E" and the other one is "O". Could anyone tell me which one goes in the left socket and which one goes 4>in the right socket (looking from the front of the computer). I would be grateful if someone knows the answer. Martin Lee ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 127 Tue Mar 22, 1994 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:47 EST THe 2.06 chip with the higher number replaces the 2.05 chip with the higher number, and vice-versa. THat's how I was told, and it worked for me. ~Chris ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 128 Tue Mar 22, 1994 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 23:12 EST It stands for "E"ven and "O"dd. Look at the nyumbers on the 2.05 chips, you'll notice one is even and the other odd. -Tom McComb {10:54 pm} Tuesday, March 22, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 129 Wed Mar 23, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 01:37 EST E (even) goes in the left socket, O (odd) goes in the right. I dunno about going from 2.05 to 2.06, but when I went from 1.62 to 2.06 I had to reposition some jumpers. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 130 Wed Mar 23, 1994 S.FOSKETT [Lancer] at 19:50 EST From the front of the computer, even is on the left and odd is on the right. At least on MY MSTE/2.06... .s. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 131 Thu Apr 14, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 20:04 EDT Isn't it odd that the visible flag used to denote a file that can't be deleted (set to Read Only) is the same as the ASCII code for the delete key (127)? :- ) For those looking for a hotkey to use for deleting files other than D, simply assign alt-(keypad)127 to the Delete Files option and the delete key will now delete files! (Codeheads might want to put that in their TEC manual if they haven't) ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 132 Thu Apr 14, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:28 EDT Bob, Great tip! Thanks. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 133 Wed Jul 27, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [Dal.I-Dotter] at 23:33 CDT Since it has been so quiet here for so long... !!!! WARNING !!!! !!! LONG POST !!! !!!! WARNING !!!! One of the first things I figured out on TOS 2.06 was that I could eliminate the TRASH Icon from the desktop. This meant that I had to highlight an item with the mouse & then hit a key to delete it. I haven't dropped anything in the TRASH by accident since. The most logical key to use was DELETE, so I nosed around the NEWDESK.INF file & figured out how the key assignments were stored and rearranged it to my liking with the EDDA desk accessory text editor. Here is what my NewDesk hotkeys have evolved into over the last couple of years. I found it best to use keys that I would not normally hit during Desktop operations. At the same time, I have tried to have some logical association between the key & the function - the question mark for Show Info, the backslash to back up one directory level, etc.. My other criteria was ease of use for often used commands - aka, when my Desktop gets a bit cluttered, I just reach over to the Numeric Pad & hit asterisk/ENTER to "Read .INF File" thus restoring the bootup Desktop. HEX DEC KEY FILE MENU 4F 79 O Open... 3F 63 ? Show Information... 53 83 S Search... 7F 127 DELETE Delete Item... 46 70 F Create Folder... 5C 92 \ Close Directory 08 8 BACKSPACE Close Top Window 5E 95 ^ Bottom to Top 45 69 E Select All Items 2F 47 / Set File Mask... 7E 126 ~ Format Floppy Disk... HEX DEC KEY VIEW MENU 23 35 # Show as Icons 40 64 @ Show as Text 31 49 1 Sort by Name 32 50 2 Sort by Date 33 51 3 Sort By Size 34 52 4 Sort by Type 30 48 0 No Sort 25 37 % Size to Fit 26 38 & Set Color & Style... HEX DEC KEY OPTIONS MENU 49 73 I Install Icon... 41 65 A Install Application... 44 68 D Install Devices 2D 45 - Remove Desktop Icon 21 33 ! Set Preferences... 2A 42 * Read .INF File... 43 67 C Desktop Configuration... 28 40 ( Save Desktop 7C 124 | Print Screen 2B 43 + Blitter This is the "#K" line from one of my NEWDESK.INF files. #K 4F 3F 53 7F 46 5C 08 5E 45 2F 7E 23 40 31 32 33 34 30 25 26 49 41 44 2D 21 2A 43 28 7C 2B @ Since I have an array of 10 or so .INF files for the different tasks I perform, I have found it easier to load the good .INF file into a text editor, cut or copy the "#K" line to the buffer, and then do a LOAD & PASTE with each of the other .INF's. Also, has it occurred to anyone else that you don't need drive icons on a NewDesk Desktop? Since you can open a window to a drive by hitting ALT/(drive letter). The only reason to have Desktop Icons at all is to have Installed Applications that you can launch by dragging & dropping files. If it's an application that doesn't work with drag & drop, assign it to one of the Function Keys. I have Flash2 installed with an icon & an Fkey. I can drag & drop .DO files or hit F8 to start it with no file loaded. John L. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 134 Thu Jul 28, 1994 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 00:17 PDT Neat John: Thanks for the information. I saved your post. This must be the type of information you get with CodeHead TOS 2.06 book, maybe. Thanks again. David <>< ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 135 Thu Jul 28, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:38 EDT John L., Yes, I've done something similar (with NeoDesk, which TOS 2.06's NewDesk was designed to emulate -- quite a complement to Gribnif). I also have hotkeys that load different desktops in NeoDesk, so that I can hit a function key and get a totally blank desktop and walk away knowing that no one without knowledge of which Fkey reloads the desktop will be able to mess up my TT or ST. These tips and more (many of which are helpful for NewDesk users) are in "Secrets of NeoDesk," available from your favorite online service. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 136 Fri Jul 29, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 18:02 MDT Hey! I like that idea of using the ? key for "Show Info".... ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 137 Sat Jul 30, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [Dal.I-Dotter] at 00:22 CDT Please paste the follwing correction into the long post I did the other night. I uploaded the wrong edit. The change is the result of getting a larger hard drive that gave me an "H" partition. CTRL [H] = Backspace. When I tried to change a window over to drive H, it closed the window instead. In scanning down through the ASCII table, the next logical choice was the apostrophe, so now I use it to close a directory & SHIFT['] (or ["]) to close the window. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TEAR HERE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here is what my NewDesk hotkeys have evolved into over the last couple of years. I found it best to use keys that I would not normally hit during Desktop operations. At the same time, I have tried t o have some logical association between the key & the function - question mark [?] for Show Info, apostrophe ['] to back up one directory level, qoutation mark to close the window, etc.. The other cr iteria was ease of use for often used commands - aka, when my Desktop gets a bit cluttered, I just reach over to the Numeric Pad & hit asterisk/ENTER to "Read .INF File" thus restoring the bootup Desk top. HEX DEC KEY FILE MENU 4F 79 O Open... 3F 63 ? Show Information... 53 83 S Search... 7F 127 DELETE Delete Item... 46 70 F Create Folder... 22 34 ' Close Directory 27 39 " Close Top Window 5E 95 ^ Bottom to Top 45 69 E Select All Items 2F 47 / Set File Mask... 7E 126 ~ Format Floppy Disk... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TEAR HERE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David, >This must be the type of information you get with CodeHead TOS 2.06 >book, maybe. If you don't have one, get one. I first went adventuring through *DESK*.INF files under TOS 1.00 - print out the file, change one item & SAVE the DESKTOP, print out the new file & note the differences; LDIR. Al, >I also have hotkeys that load different desktops in NeoDesk, I have an old program, from DC Utuilities I think, that turns an .INF file into a self loading executable. I'll have to try it on 2.06. I know that 2.06 ended my use of DC DesKey. I sure wish I could hotkey the Accessories. I know, Al, "Get Geneva ...". Soon. John L. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 138 Sun Jul 31, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 02:03 EDT John L., Yes, that DC utility worked great when I used TOS 1.00 and when I was first using TOS 1.04 (before I NeoDesked my setups). I use Geneva's hotkeys in a similar fashion: the keypad "+" toggles a window to full size or back to normal, the keypad "-" closes an app (or a window, at the desktop), and so on. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 139 Sat Aug 13, 1994 D.KAUFMAN [d.a.k.] at 15:58 EDT I have just read mucho old posts concerning tos 2.06. I have 2.05 on a 4mb MSTE which works fine for me. Thanks to discussion in the MSTE topic earlier this year, I discovered I had a 1.44 fd inside which I got working by d/l'ing the dipswitch cpx and the FDC.PRG "cookie jar" program, as suggested there. After reading these 2.06 posts, the conclusion seemed to be that the major difference between 2.05 and 2.06 was "official" support of the 1.44 hd floppy standard and nothing else that I gleaned from the posts. One post in May, 1994 stated that 2.06 fixed "various bugs" from 2.05. Just what are these bugs? Cicadas? <g> In these earlier posts (some which referred to a revision: _2.07_), I neither saw any specificity as to what these 2.05 bugs were, nor do I now (correct grammar?). I don't seem to have any. Hey, if you watched that Watergate series on Discovery channel, you know how important specificity is. (BTW, the ending's still the same, Nixon resigns, and still waves prior to stepping into the helicopter. If you're too young to remember Watergate, you ought to check it out during its rebroadcast. It's an important constitutional history lesson.) Back to topic, should I upgrade to 2.06 while the chips are still around? I've been mulling this over for a long time. I usually believe in the "if it ain't broke etc. etc." philosophy but if it will truly improve my machine I would do it. Thanks. d.a.k. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 140 Sat Aug 13, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 17:48 EDT D.A.K., the fix to the 1.44 meg drive was, I believe, to make it compatable with the DOS formated disks of that size. In 2.05 this is unreliable; sometimes it works and with some machines it doesn't. Another fix in 2.06 is, I believe, the Wrap Fix problem. This hits mostly in ST High rez where the screen will shift a half inch to the right and wrap itself around to the left edge of the screen. There's an auto folder program in the library to fix this 'bug' in TOS 2.05 as well. I think the rest of the fixes were of a similar vein. Not fixes to the TOS so much as improvements in error handling, making the TOS more compatable with programs that don't, quite, obey the rules. I don't know what they are, though. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 141 Sat Aug 13, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [Dal.I-Dotter] at 19:53 CDT The most useful difference for me was the fact that 2.06 lets you enter the extended characters by holding down the ALT key & typing in the Decimal ASSCII value on the numeric key pad. I find it especially handy for editting things to publish where I use it to enter proper openning quotes, em-dashes, etc. HI! Using it with the Epson Graphics font I created for Warp 9 also lets me do stuff like this and have it look the same on screen as it does when I print it out. John L. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 142 Sun Aug 14, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [Dal.I-Dotter] at 00:28 CDT When I watched that last message go up, I saw that either Aladdin or GEnie filters out the extended characters. The word HI! had a single-line box around it instead of those letters. John L. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 143 Sun Aug 14, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 16:57 EDT DAK Chips for TOS 1.04 are still being sold, so there's no imminent danger of losing your chance at getting 2.06 should you want to. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 144 Sun Aug 14, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:31 EDT John, It's GEnie that filters out the high ASCII. No facny ASCII art here ;O John ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 153 Wed Aug 17, 1994 D.KAUFMAN [d.a.k.] at 20:50 EDT Re: 2.05 v. 2.06 Thanks for your replies. I have successfully formatted a blank 1.44 floppy and loaded 850k of text files that successfully got read on a dos machine. I don't work with floppies much, but so far so good... I also have an auto program called ACCENT.PRG (1K) that allows me the extended char. set with the alt-# keys for 2.05. I was informed of this in the MSTE topic a while ago (I think). I use hi-rez (SM147) and only had the screen-wrap problem once with some shareware terminal program, which I no longer use. Otherwise I have never experienced that. I may hold off on 2.06 right now. It's just I have some $$ to spend on Atari right now and don't know what to do, like my MSTE has reached critical mass, and I have all the apps I need right now. Guess I'll just go out to a nice overpriced restaurant in Manhattan... <g>. d.a.k. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 155 Thu Aug 18, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [Dal.I-Dotter] at 22:52 CDT d.a.k. >It's just I have some $$ to spend on Atari right now and don't know >what to do, like my MSTE has reached critical mass, and I have all >the apps I need right now. Jim Allen has been putting up some info on a thing called BigRAM that plugs to the Blitter socket and gives you 4 or 8 MB of additional RAM that does not interfere with the use of video cards. John L. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 156 Sun Aug 21, 1994 U.ZEHME [UWE] at 19:50 EDT Please can anybody tell my what happend to file # 30423, the file TOS206_5.Arc? Aladdin could not find this file "not in this Lib." Thanks Uwe ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 157 Sun Aug 21, 1994 M.EASTER [Mike] at 17:41 PDT Uwe - re "TOS206_5.ARC.. not in this library" Somehow your "set library" must have gotten set to something other than ALL libraries. If you are in a _particular_ library, (other than 13 in this case), instead of ALL, GEnie will tell you that file isn't in that library. I'm not an Aladdin user, but manually I would use 8 (to set library) and then "all" to get correct access. The file is here, in library 13. Mike Easter ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 158 Sun Aug 21, 1994 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 22:09 EDT John L. Do you have anymore info on this BigRAM? I'd VERY much like to find out about it!!! Jeffrey ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 159 Wed Aug 24, 1994 U.ZEHME [UWE] at 22:12 EDT Mike Easter Thanks Mike, I had lib 13 on ignore. After I corrected that, I got the file. Thanks Uwe ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 160 Sun Sep 04, 1994 FALCONER at 00:56 PDT Hi, Everybody....... :0 Have a question tonite concerning this particular TOS..... Specifically, I have made to know that this version of TOS >supposedly< handles HIGH DENSITY disk drives. Is this correct?? If so, how does it go about doing so, and can I get it to recognize a High Density unit in my ST?? I ask because I have a TEAC drive mech in my ST, and while it does DOUBLE DENSITY fine, it would and could do High with no problems, if it is indeed doable under TOS 2.06 . Buuuuttttt.......... I have also heard that this function of 2.06 ONLY works for the Megas', and TT's!! On top of which, it requires some type of chip, called AJAX. Is this also true, and, if so, can I get this chip for my unit, and do t ---the same?? I would really like to be able to do High Density, as I am already set ---up for it. I have the drive mech, I have TOS 2.06, I even see HD support from ORA stuff, as well as from the Gribnif dudes. I want to do it!! Can I??? :* All feedback is welcome, and APPRECIATED!!! :) Thanks...............FALCONER........... ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 161 Sun Sep 04, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 13:28 EDT Falconer, to do high density on your machine you need to send a 16mhz signal to the floppy drive as well. That's the reason it is usually restricted to the MSTE and TT. I have *heard* that it is possible to do it on a regular 8mhz ST as well with some kind of hardware trick ... but I don't have a clue how, sorry. I hope someone else can help you with this. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 162 Sun Sep 04, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 15:29 EDT Falconer, TOS 2.05 and 2.06 does support 1.44 drives, BUT ... Although TOS 2.0x will work on STes and STs (with a hardware adapter), the hardware on these machines will not support 1.44 drives without extensive modification. The hardware within the MSTe will support 1.44 drives IF you have an AJAX chip. The AJAX replaces the WD1772 floppy controller and is required to handle the higher data rate from a 1.44 drive. Bottom line: You need a MSTe, TOS 2.0x and an AJAX chip as well as a 1.44 drive. TTs and F030s also support 1.44 drives. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 11:03 AM Mountain Time Sunday, September 4, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 163 Sun Sep 04, 1994 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 12:33 PDT FALCONER, I have a TEAC HD drive in my 1040 STfm/TOS 1.4, and it works beautifully on high and normal density. I do have to use a standalone program to do the HD format, but that's no problem. On my 1040 STe/TOS 2.05, I enabled a jumper and can get HD formatting from the desktop format menu. There is a file in the library that may help you figure this out. The drive has to be jumpered a certain way, and you WILL need an AJAX chip to replace your WD-1772 floppy drive controller chip. Best Electronics and Toad have them. Jim Allen has a circuit that will let a Mega automatically switch density according to the type of disk inserted. The file number for the HD mod is: 32506-DRIVE144.TXT. Good luck. Paul ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 164 Tue Sep 06, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 02:49 EDT OK folks - I have a bit of a problem. I picked up TOS 2.06 at the CAF show, from TOAD. Installed it (thanks Mike, et al) taking the proper anti-static precautions. Well, all worked fine for almost a week. Now, the system runs fine after finally booting up, but I repeatedly get anywhere from 2 to 10 bombs just before Geneva runs NeoDesk. (3.04... haven't gotten Neo4 yet) Also, it seems that whenever I run Aladdin now, the fragmentation to it's partition is much greater than it used to be, and I now get frequent disk errors/ FAT collisions found when running Diamond Medic or Edge. Any ideas? Could I have a bad set of ROMS? I've rechecked the way their seated, and everything _looks_ fine. Help, if you can, I'm getting tired of having to re-boot several times when I first turn the system on. Oh, once it's been up and running, I can re-boot without problem! Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 165 Tue Sep 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:29 EDT Matt, Sounds like a chip-seating problem. Take the ROMs out and reinstall them. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 166 Wed Sep 07, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 02:05 EDT Thanks Al, I did that very thing this evening, but haven't had the nerve to shut the machine down to see what happens from a truly cold start. It came up fine after reseating the chips though. Had a rough time just before I did that... I fired up the machine, checked the G partition (Aladdin's) in Edge, then attempted to log on. Less than two minutes into the session, I get a 'disk full' message, and have to abort. Odd, as there were easily 4+ megs free in the partition. (what can I say... some of us have to make do with under a Gig. <G>) I back out of Aladdin and open a window to 'G', and there are all my folders, with nothing but slashes for titles! Open a folder to check the files, and most of them had only one file, named 'u'. OHH Boy! Wiped the partition, checked for bad sectors (none) and thanked the folks at ORA aloud as I restored from recent backup. (did I mention that I _love_ backups?!) -=-=-=- Well, it's 3 hours later, and I still haven't powered down and restarted, _but_ after the re-seating, the Aladdin session went smoothly, and I seem to back to a more usual (low) number of frags on the Aladdin partition. WHEW! Guess I'll find out in the morning if I have any further problems. All the best, Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 167 Wed Sep 07, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 03:03 EDT Matt, What Al said. Also when you have the chips out, check and see if you have bent any of the pins. Sometimes you can bend a pin over and it will still make intermittant contact with the socket. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 12:05 AM Mountain Time Wednesday, September 7, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 168 Wed Sep 07, 1994 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 00:40 PDT Matt: Just a thought on your problem and is very open to complete rejection. :) Could there be any problems when changing from one version of TOS to another? Let's take an example. Hard drive formatted with TOS 1.0 and then used with TOS 2.06 reads and writes? It just seem to me I had this problem a long while back and reformattiong the hard drive with the new TOS installed was the answer, especially when running Aladdin. But I don't remember well enough to make it a suggested solution to you problem. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 169 Wed Sep 07, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 18:09 EDT Matt- Try reseating the ROM chips. Maybe they're loose. For that matter, reseat - all- of the chips while you're there. Just pushing down on them is normally enough. If you had a bad set of ROMs, it would post a message during boot up ("ROM E is bad" or "ROM O is bad" or something like that. E=even and O= odd) Have you tried running on a stock system? If it only bombs during Geneva, then there is your problem (most likely). Maybe a corrupt .RSC file. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 170 Wed Sep 07, 1994 D.KAUFMAN [d.a.k.] at 19:27 EDT John L. (circa 8/18/94)> >Jim Allen has been putting up some info on a thing called BigRAM >that plugs to the Blitter socket and gives you 4 or 8 MB of >additional RAM that does not interfere with the use of video cards. Sorry for my delayed response. I returned from a 2-week vacation driving from NYC to Colorado and back (w/my wife, dog & cat in a rented minivan), testing the Colorado waters for possible relocation. (I am a Univ. of Colo. grad from way back). Anyway, that sounds like something to check out. Ram expansion has been a long time comin' for Mega STEs. Best was supposed to have one years ago (Xtra Ram Deluxe?). I know Jim Allen is also extremely deliberate <g> in his getting products to market, based upon other messages in his area. Right now, though, Tos 2.06 upgrade for me is put to the back burner. I will continue with the "if it ain't broke etc. etc." Geez, I can't even remember my last crash! d.a.k. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 171 Wed Sep 07, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:56 EDT Thanks all, for the responses. There is, however, a new chapter to the saga. After reseating the chips, it booted fine. I ran the system for many hours then shut down. This morning, I booted up fine as well. Satisfied, I shut it down and left the house. I returned about 5 hours later, and installed a Power Center, connecting the CPU, monitor and external HD and Syquest to something to eliminate having to continue reaching around to the various ON/OFF switches. I booted up, to 2 bombs! There was a dialog box this time which told me it choked on NeoDesk.EXE. (already posted to that area) No manner of restoring from backup would help, neither did reinstalling NEO from orig. disk. I _did_ back the C partition up to the Syquest before the re- install, but now, I can't get to my Syquest partitions! The device is recognized by ICD SCSI PRO during boot up, it shows the device in the boot screen list, with NO partitions atributed to it!!! Any further ideas? I'm about to go nuts! Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 172 Thu Sep 08, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 00:13 EDT OK folks, I've re-installed 'C', _and_ re-installed ICDBOOT.SYS from orig. floppy. So far, so good! I've even cold booted several times with no problems. Call me crazy (everyone else does!) but I think I'll wait until it boots up without a hitch tomorrow before breathing that sigh of relief. Gee, and I'm not even from Missouri! <G> Thanks again to all, Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 173 Thu Sep 08, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 03:00 EDT Matt, When you first boot up, check to see if there are any problems using Cleanup, Edge, whatever will check the partition structure out. If there are problems, then try turning the power off and back on and then check it again. I am not sure how all this is related to your situation but, here lately, my internal drive has a bad disk structure (all kinds of errors, bad fats, etc.) when I first boot up after the computer has been off for awhile. If I cycle the power, the second time everything is fine. Where there were just errors, it's now fine. Strange. This is on a MSTE with the internal (Quantum) drive. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 174 Thu Sep 08, 1994 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 06:31 EDT Matt, If your troubles persist, maybe you should open up your MSTE again. It seems that the cable routing of units with internal hard drives is CRITICAL! Perhaps the cables got moved when you made your TOS change? The hard drive cable can pick up interference from the internal floppy cable especially. If you can't route one away from the other, try to have them cross at right angles. However, I hope your new Drive C stuff did the trick. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 175 Thu Sep 08, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:49 EDT Great, Matt! Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 176 Thu Sep 08, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 12:35 EDT Hi all, If any of you are reading the Geneva topic too, you'll see I've still got some problems. Last night, after reinstalling Neo and rebuilding the Desktop, I rebooted several times with no problems. shut down about 1:30 AM and went to bed. This morning, I booted up the machine to a new message: "Process Neodesk exited with statis # -33 there is no file wiht this name". It went to the default desktop. I rebuilt the desktop, and saved it. Question: Could there be something in the way 2.05 saved the .INF files that 2.06 doesn't like? Hard as it is to stay away from my machine, I will shut down now and try to power up in a few hours. We'll see what happens then. Odd, it seems to happen only during the first power up after being shut down for hours. Once it's up and running, any number of cold or warm reboots proceed fine.? Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 177 Thu Sep 08, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 18:38 EDT Wayne - I agree, it's odd. That is what was happening when I first installed the 2.06 ROMS. It went on like that for about a week. First boot was problematic, second, or third was fine, and fine until power up the next day. Edge shows everything is fine! No bad sectors, no frags, nothing! Dan (Gribnif) tells me my order for Neo4 went out a day ago or so. Perhaps when I do the install for that all this mess will be over. BTW - this is a MSTe with the internal Seagate. -=-=-=-=- Fred P. - Thanks for the suggestion, but I was forewarned about the drive cables needing to be at right angles. I did all I could to make sure this was so. I'd say they were at 88 or 89 degrees, if not exactly 90. Do you think _that_ would make the difference? -=-=-=- Al, Thanks, but it seems I was a bit premature! Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 178 Thu Sep 08, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 19:46 EDT OK, I could only wait about 4 hours without getting back to the machine. It booted fine. I don't know if it's that it wasn't _cold_ enough after only 4 hours, or if all was 'fixed', but something wonderful has happened! I received Neo4 in the mail today! (Yipiee!) I was debating with myself about whether I should wait to see if the other problems were truely fixed before doing the install... but no, I couldn't wait. So far, so good. Thanks all, for the help. _IF_ I see the same difficulties tomorrow morning, I'll return with details. Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 179 Fri Sep 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 05:24 EDT Matt, I'm pretty surre you have a hardware problem there. 2.05 and 2.06 don't save INF files differently. <g> Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 180 Fri Sep 09, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 19:04 EDT Argghhh! ---------- The next chapter... Powered up about 10:30 this morning. Went all the way up to loading the Neo4 desktop, then said it could not locat .INF file, but used the default so I did get to the NeoDesktop. I tossed the .INF file and created another, then shut down. As I only seem to have the problem after the machine has been down for at least 5 hours I tried hard, and succeeded at keeping away form it until 3:30 pm. Power up... a two bomb crash and a message about _some_ Neodesk file I was too apoplectic to read. A stab at the return key and I'm at G's NoDesk. One reboot and all is fine. I powered down again for 20 minutes and as expected, no problem at boot up. It doesn't seem that this is a Neo4 problem, since it was also happening under 3.04. Guess I'll see what the folks have to say in the other areas tonight, and if nothing else comes up, I'll reinstall _both_ Geneva and Neo4 from scratch. If that doesn't do it, it's back into duty for the old 2.05 chips, and these 2.06's go off to Toad for checking. Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 181 Sat Sep 10, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 04:50 EDT Matt, Before you go crazy from trying to find a software fix for a hardware problem, let me tell you about my latest "software" problem. Programs would't run frfom my CD-ROM drive (they would from the hard drive), the ICD booter kept showing Sense $13 errors when I did certain things, Neo 4 was crashing at odd times, icons disappeared, my cell phone got the wrong numbers (OK, that's not true) ... and the problem turned out to be a SCSI pin that wasn't seated properly. You have a hardware problem, not a software problem. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 182 Sat Sep 10, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 07:04 EDT Matt, That's exactly the same way my HD is acting on my MSTE. It is fine until I shut down for awhile. I then have to do a power cycle in order for it to be ok. Luckily this isn't my boot drive. Until I figured out what was going on, nothing would fix it. Even a FORMAT would not clear out the information!! I finally found a piece of software that would wipe it out. First boot, big time problems. Do a power cycle, everything is fine. I have just been doing a power cycle twice in a row without even letting it get to the desktop. BTW, I have TOS 2.06 and this problem just started happening so I don't think it is your TOS change. I believe that was just a coincedence. Mine started right after I installed a piece of software but, that also is coincedence. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 183 Sat Sep 10, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 12:41 EDT Matt, and Wayne, have you guys tried looking inside the machine to see if there are any ships that need to be reset? Sometimes after a few years they try to get away from home. Also, I've seen machines that were in dusty and smoky environments that the pins actually needed cleaning. John B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 184 Sat Sep 10, 1994 T.STARACE1 at 13:29 EDT Can someone please upload the DEFAULT.DAT file for the STOS fixer program for TOS 2.06. Thanks ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 185 Sat Sep 10, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 15:52 EDT >Message 182 Sat Sep 10, 1994 >R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 07:04 EDT > > Matt, > That's exactly the same way my HD is acting on my MSTE. It is fine > until I shut down for awhile. I then have to do a power cycle in > order for it to be ok. Luckily this isn't my boot drive. Until I > figured out what was going on, nothing would fix it. Even a FORMAT > would not clear out the information!! I finally found a piece of > software that would wipe it out. I couldn't tell from your post.. did that peice of software cure the problem? IF so.. what is it? -=-=-=-=-=- Al - I guess it's Aladdin lag... OK, ok... I believe it's a hardware problem! <big grin> I've taken further discussion over to the Problems and Solutions area in the Hardware Catagory. (Cat 4 Top 38) -=-=- John, Been there, done that! Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 186 Sat Sep 10, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 17:19 EDT Matt, Nope, that piece of software didn't fix the problem, it was just the only one that would clear the drive. After that, I was able to reformat/partition the drive with my ICD utilities. Once I found out it was a hardware problem causing my messed up data, I haven't had to reformat/repartition the drive since. For now, I just power up, let the HD get up to speed and then turn power off and back on and let it boot up from there. When I do this, I have no problems whatsoever with the drive being corrupted. When I get time to play with it, I will take it apart and see if I can find anything. I hate to say what piece of software it was because I swore I would never let it near my system at all. I was desperate though and except for those couple of times, it will never get near my system again. This being the Atari HD format/partition utilities. Once you have owned the best (ICD stuff), the rest is junk. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 187 Sat Sep 10, 1994 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 22:10 EDT Matt, Just for shits and grins, load your GEM.CNF file into a text editor and move the statement which reads: shell C:\NEODESK4\NEODESK.EXE from the top of the file to the bottom of the file and see if that helps any. Also, if you have your blitter chip enabled, try permanently disabiling it and see if that fixes your problem. I have a Mega4ST with TOS 2.06 and an ICD AdSpeed and whenever I turn on my blitter clip, my system crashes frequently (in fact, I couldn't load Neo4 in low res at all until I modified the NEODESKL.INF file by hand to disable the blitter). The line in the NEODESKx.INF with the blitter status reads: ;Control: ampm,clock,save,mins,caches,repeat1,repeat2,click,bell, ; mclick,floppyA,floppyB,volume/balance,treble/bass CONTROL 1 0 0 5 14 1000 80 0 1 0 3 3 5152 102 ^ The "4" in "14" above means that the Blitter is off. If it were a "5", that would indicate that the Blitter is turned on. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 188 Sat Sep 10, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 22:42 EDT R.(Wayne) Watson... I agree, ICD is the cream of the crop. It seems I've had some better luck this time. About 5+ hours ago I once again reseated the ROM's and HA end of the HD ribbon, only I didn't press either as far home as I had before. Booted up just prior to logging on and only had a minor pixel shift in my desktop pic. (an area screen width x 3/8 inch was shifted slightly to the right.) 5 hours has been the 'Key' time, but I'll see what happens in the morning before I believe I'm really on to something. <G> If I'm not completely lucky, I might get away with only needing a new SCSI ribbon. Later, Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 189 Sat Sep 10, 1994 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 20:31 PDT See Flat: I read this from you " >Matt, and Wayne, > have you guys tried looking inside the machine > to see if there are any ships that need to be reset? Sometimes > after a few years they try to get away from home." What a very funny typo. :) Thanks ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 190 Sun Sep 11, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 00:57 EDT Thanks Mike - I'll give it a try and see what happens, though the mere fact that all was working perfectly before I opened it up to change ROM's is enough for me to believe it's a hardware thing, even if the other things weren't enough. Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 191 Sun Sep 11, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 12:24 EDT David, I'm glad you noted that typo as I would have never noticed and it gave a really good laugh. :-) John B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 192 Tue Sep 13, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 01:27 EDT Hi all, Well, I may be making progress on my hardware problem, but I'm not sure. I booted up this evening after a 6 hour shut down to my normal boot set. (incl. Geneva and Neo4) This time, I held the CONTROL key which is supposed to tell Beneva to boot without loading any .ACC's. The machine booted up without any bombs, but I saw only a flash of the Neo4 info screen and was taken right to the Geneva Nodesktop. No .ACC's were loaded, mind you, so that part worked. I think, however, that it is still supposed to load and run NeoDesk. Anyway, I'm happy I was able to boot with no bombs, the first time. I'm still searching for causes, but .... <G> Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 193 Tue Sep 13, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 06:04 EDT Matt, Have you tried turning on the computer, letting the HD get up to speed, turn the computer off and then back on to see if it would boot up without incident? If not, then try it but make sure that everything is ok first with the drive (i.e. no bad fat tables, etc.). ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 194 Tue Sep 13, 1994 R.SNYDER6 [Roger S.] at 12:37 EDT Matt, After you get your hardware problem sorted out, you may have to fix some of the software. The hardware acting up can corrupt some of the software, not so much the programs, but INF, CNF, DAT etc. files are quite vulnerable. --Roger ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 195 Tue Sep 13, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 20:51 EDT Wayne,(Watson) So far I've only turned the thing off after the crash. Tomorrow morning I'll try what you suggest. Before I power down tonight, I'll run diamond Edge to get all partitions in order. Thought I had it fixed yesterday. Powered down for 6 hours and had a perfect boot up. Alas, this morning it was back to bombs. -=--=-=-=-=-==-- Roger - Yes, that may be so, although right now, with the exception of the known or reported Neo4 problems, all software works fine. Shoot, my vacation is over and it's back to work tomorrow, so I'll only get to times a day to test any fix. Before I leave, and when I return. (Still need 5 hours before the problem will reserface) Thanks all, I'd surely be worse off than I am (emotionally) without your suggestions and support. Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 196 Wed Sep 14, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 09:41 EDT Wayne W, I tried turning of the power just after the internal HD initializes, then switching on again, and still got the crash. 2 bombs, bus error. Press R to recover and got the list of registers (I'll post them if anyone thinks they can make sense out of them) . Press R again to get the dialog box saying Process NEODESK exited with status # -1. Click OK to get to Geneva's Nodesktop. Enter file selector and run NEOLOAD.EXE and get 'incompatable NEO_INF file? Click on the only button in the box, which says 'SORRY' ... It says no defaults found, using Default.inf. Then I'm at the box stock NeoDesktop. I just don't know. I call my boot manager, select a warm reboot and all is fine. Does this tell _anybody_ *anything* about what might be the cause of the trouble??? Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 197 Thu Sep 15, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 01:39 EDT Oh boy, I'm almost excited. This evening I returned form work and booted up the MSTe to NO bombs. What was different? I removed the Syquest from the SCSI chain. (Frank, was that you who brought that up?) It was also a bit warmer in the room when I got home tonight, than it has been, so I'm hoping _that_ doesn't figure in. Guess I'll see tomorrow. Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 198 Sat Sep 17, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:53 EDT Roger, Good point about hardware mucking up software. That happened on the big system here; I finally traced the problem to a cable, and then faced a day of fixing the darn files that were damaged! Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 199 Mon Oct 17, 1994 C.PROBERT at 23:01 EDT I have recently acquired a 4 Meg STE with a high density floppy and TOS 2.06. I was under the impression that if I format a floppy on my STE it can be read by an IBM PC, but when I tried this the IBM recognized the disk but reported no files. Can anybody explain this ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 200 Tue Oct 18, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 18:13 EDT C.Probert, What did you use to format the floppy? I don't have a HD floppy in my MSTe yet, but have had some trouble getting floppies read by DOS boxes when I've formated from the desktop. I much prefer to use a formatter like Diamond Format from Oregon Research. (comes with Diamond Back III) Not sure, but it may be in the lib's. Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 201 Tue Oct 18, 1994 C.PROBERT at 21:07 EDT Matt, I formatted the high density drive from the desktop using tos 2.06. I have no problem reading files formatted on the IBM. ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 202 Tue Oct 18, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:42 EDT C.Probert, Yeah, that's the weird thing. I can always read a disk formatted on the IBM, but the clones can't always read the ones formatted from the Atari desktop. Heck, I've had trouble taking files from DOS box to DOS box! <G> Seems not all DOS boxes are alike. Matt ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 203 Wed Oct 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:27 EDT C. Probert (sorry, but you didn't set your Aladdin configuration to give a first name, or you aren't using Aladdin [and should be]...), Some PCs will not recognize floppies or will have a hard time reading them if they do not have a special code at the beginning of the disk. Atari actually handles the disks properly. If compatibility is important, format the disks on a PC first. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 8 Message 204 Wed Oct 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:47 EDT Diamond Format is troutware, and is in the libs here, Matt. You send Bob Luneski a trout if you like it. (OK, maybe a trout fly....) Al ------------